Tarkkuuden erot, rosteri vs mustapiippuinen?

[FINZKI]

Nestemäistä typpeä ja 24h piippu uimaan typpeen, ainakin niin tämä jenkki firma kertoo cryopiippujen uivan, ja saavan sen vaikutuksen sitten.

http://nitrofreeze.com/services/conventional-cryogenic-treatment/firearms-gun-barrels/">http://nitrofreeze.com/services/convent ... n-barrels/">http://nitrofreeze.com/services/conventional-cryogenic-treatment/firearms-gun-barrels/

Mulla intissä tuolla aineella syyliä jäädyttivät, oli aika stanan kivulias jalkapohja sen jälkeen pari päivää.

[Koheltaja]

töissä on jatkuvasti tekemisissä näiden kylmien nesteiden kanssa.

Mulla ne kylmät nesteet sijoittuu enemmän vapaa ajalle... :mrgreen:



Kerro kokemuksia jos meinaat laittaa piipun typpikylpyyn. Joskus tuosta on ollut puhetta kavereiden kanssa mutta ei ole koskaan kokeiltu jäädyttämisen vaikutuksia, piekkarin piippu piti jäädyttää mutta jäi tekemättä.

[Homer]

Viiden minuutin surffailu toi jo eteen erilaisia juttuja, kuten piipun pitämisen kaasutilassa (ei uimassa), jäähdytyskertojen toiston yms. Voisi sitä silti joskus kokeilla jollain sellaisella piipulla minkä sudeksi meneminen ei itkettäisi liikaa. Tietty pitäisi dokumentoida ennen-jälkeen tilanne mahdollisimman hyvin. Laitetaan siihen samaan to-do-listaan kuin se RVS-käsittelykin

Pitää etsiä myös ne epäonnistuneet kokemukset. Ilmeisesti terästä ei saa kryokäsittelyllä heikommaksi, mutta pitänee surffata vielä ainakin toiset viisi minuuttia, ennen kuin nielen mitään totuutta. Jos kryokäsittely olisi pelkkää hyvää, niin miksi ei kaikki tee sitä.

[Koheltaja]

Laitetaan siihen samaan to-do-listaan kuin se RVS-käsittelykin ...

...Jos kryokäsittely olisi pelkkää hyvää, niin miksi ei kaikki tee sitä.

Samaa voi kysyä RVS käsittelystä...

[Homer]

Laitetaan siihen samaan to-do-listaan kuin se RVS-käsittelykin ...

...Jos kryokäsittely olisi pelkkää hyvää, niin miksi ei kaikki tee sitä.

Samaa voi kysyä RVS käsittelystä...

Damn right!

[FINZKI]

Eilen tuosta RVS aineesta lukasin itekkin juttua kun motonetin sivuilla kävin, snakeoililta kuulostaa

Vanha kunnon Norinco oli testattavana RVS ihmenaineen kera.

http://www.rvs.fi/pdf/Piippu_paremmaksi_geelilla.pdf">http://www.rvs.fi/pdf/Piippu_paremmaksi_geelilla.pdf



Jenkkisivuilta taas cryojuttua selasin, tälläsen linkin löysin.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/521832_cryo_treating_barrels_.html">http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/5218 ... rels_.html">http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/521832_cryo_treating_barrels_.html



Siellä oli Liljan ja Shilenin piipuntekijöiltä joku kysynyt cryosta, ja kommentit oli, ettei ole apua, muttei haittaakaan



From Shilen: http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question1">http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question1



Should I "cryo" my barrel?

If you have heard that the cryogenic treatment stress relieves steel, this is false. We have measured the residual stress in 4140 and 416 steel with a process called x-ray diffraction. After much R&D, we have not been able to measure any changes in molecular stress after cryo treatment. For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel either.



From Lilja: http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#deepcryogenic">http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_r ... pcryogenic">http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#deepcryogenic



Q. What is your opinion of the deep cryogenic processing of barrels?



A. The cryogenic treating of barrels at a temperature of -300 degrees below zero has been a hot topic of discussion lately. Our short answer is that it will not harm your barrel but we are not completely convinced of all of the benefits claimed by some. The only benefits that we feel are likely to result from the treatment are possibly a longer barrel life and a slight increase in machinability.



Claims for increased accuracy through stress relief are not founded in our opinion. When barrels are button rifled no material is removed, it is just displaced. This causes stresses to be formed in the steel. If these stresses are not removed problems will result. These negative conditions include warping of the barrel during other machining operations, an increase in the bore diameter towards the muzzle end of the barrel during the contouring phase, and in the extreme, lengthwise splitting of the barrel. Also, if there are stresses remaining in the barrel they can be slowly released as a barrel warms up during firing. This causes the barrel to actually move during the course of shooting, causing inaccuracy.



In our testing we have found that the only effective means to completely remove the types of stresses introduced during rifling are with conventional heat treating using elevated temperatures. The -300 degree treatment alone will not remove these stresses. We have been told by a knowledgeable metallurgist that the deep cold treatment will, at best, remove up to 6% of the remaining stresses in the type of steel used for rifle barrels. The key words here are remaining stresses. In other words if the barrel was not stress relieved conventionally, then only 6% of the original stress will be removed. If the barrel has been treated conventionally with heat and then brought through the -300 degree cycle, up to 6% of any remaining stresses could be removed by the cold treatment. We do know through our testing that the cold treatment alone will not remove any significant amount of stress and that the problems outlined above concerning stress will remain in the barrel.



So, because of the very limited amount of stress that could be removed with the cold treatment (if the barrel has been properly stress relieved with heat as our barrels are) we do not believe that there can be much if any accuracy benefit to the -300 degree treatment of our barrels. It is for these reasons that we feel the cold process has very little potential for increasing the accuracy of our barrels. In our opinion, other than the removal of these stresses, there are no other mechanical factors involved that could benefit accuracy in a rifle barrel, resulting from a heat treating operation, either hot or cold.



For reasons not completely understood however there may be an increase in the wear resistance of the steel. This type of wear however does not contribute greatly to barrel erosion. We invite you to read our comments on this type of barrel wear in the question regarding the use of moly coated bullets.



Another possible side benefit to the freezing process is a slight increase in its machinability.



Post Script: Since I originally wrote this an excellent article by Kevin Thomas of Sierra Bullets was printed in the September, 1998 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. Mr. Thomas found, in a controlled test, that there was little benefit to deep freezing match grade barrels. He could see no difference in accuracy but probably a slight increase in useful life. I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to take a look at this article

[FINZKI]

Eilen tuosta RVS aineesta lukasin itekkin juttua kun motonetin sivuilla kävin, snakeoililta kuulostaa

Vanha kunnon Norinco oli testattavana RVS ihmenaineen kera.

http://www.rvs.fi/pdf/Piippu_paremmaksi_geelilla.pdf">http://www.rvs.fi/pdf/Piippu_paremmaksi_geelilla.pdf



Pakko tuon olla toimivaa ainetta

Se on testattukkin autossa. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NymF_vEst0">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NymF_vEst0



Jenkkisivuilta taas cryojuttua selasin, tälläsen linkin löysin.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/521832_cryo_treating_barrels_.html">http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/5218 ... rels_.html">http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/521832_cryo_treating_barrels_.html



Siellä oli Liljan ja Shilenin piipuntekijöiltä joku kysynyt cryosta, ja kommentit oli, ettei ole apua, muttei haittaakaan



From Shilen: http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question1">http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question1



Should I "cryo" my barrel?

If you have heard that the cryogenic treatment stress relieves steel, this is false. We have measured the residual stress in 4140 and 416 steel with a process called x-ray diffraction. After much R&D, we have not been able to measure any changes in molecular stress after cryo treatment. For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel either.



From Lilja: http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#deepcryogenic">http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_r ... pcryogenic">http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#deepcryogenic



Q. What is your opinion of the deep cryogenic processing of barrels?



A. The cryogenic treating of barrels at a temperature of -300 degrees below zero has been a hot topic of discussion lately. Our short answer is that it will not harm your barrel but we are not completely convinced of all of the benefits claimed by some. The only benefits that we feel are likely to result from the treatment are possibly a longer barrel life and a slight increase in machinability.



Claims for increased accuracy through stress relief are not founded in our opinion. When barrels are button rifled no material is removed, it is just displaced. This causes stresses to be formed in the steel. If these stresses are not removed problems will result. These negative conditions include warping of the barrel during other machining operations, an increase in the bore diameter towards the muzzle end of the barrel during the contouring phase, and in the extreme, lengthwise splitting of the barrel. Also, if there are stresses remaining in the barrel they can be slowly released as a barrel warms up during firing. This causes the barrel to actually move during the course of shooting, causing inaccuracy.



In our testing we have found that the only effective means to completely remove the types of stresses introduced during rifling are with conventional heat treating using elevated temperatures. The -300 degree treatment alone will not remove these stresses. We have been told by a knowledgeable metallurgist that the deep cold treatment will, at best, remove up to 6% of the remaining stresses in the type of steel used for rifle barrels. The key words here are remaining stresses. In other words if the barrel was not stress relieved conventionally, then only 6% of the original stress will be removed. If the barrel has been treated conventionally with heat and then brought through the -300 degree cycle, up to 6% of any remaining stresses could be removed by the cold treatment. We do know through our testing that the cold treatment alone will not remove any significant amount of stress and that the problems outlined above concerning stress will remain in the barrel.



So, because of the very limited amount of stress that could be removed with the cold treatment (if the barrel has been properly stress relieved with heat as our barrels are) we do not believe that there can be much if any accuracy benefit to the -300 degree treatment of our barrels. It is for these reasons that we feel the cold process has very little potential for increasing the accuracy of our barrels. In our opinion, other than the removal of these stresses, there are no other mechanical factors involved that could benefit accuracy in a rifle barrel, resulting from a heat treating operation, either hot or cold.



For reasons not completely understood however there may be an increase in the wear resistance of the steel. This type of wear however does not contribute greatly to barrel erosion. We invite you to read our comments on this type of barrel wear in the question regarding the use of moly coated bullets.



Another possible side benefit to the freezing process is a slight increase in its machinability.



Post Script: Since I originally wrote this an excellent article by Kevin Thomas of Sierra Bullets was printed in the September, 1998 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. Mr. Thomas found, in a controlled test, that there was little benefit to deep freezing match grade barrels. He could see no difference in accuracy but probably a slight increase in useful life. I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to take a look at this article

[Koheltaja]

RVS on testattu aikaa sitten piekkarissa ja 308:ssa, vaikutukset oli odotetun kaltaisia. Käynti ja nopeudet oli tiedossa ennen testiä ja mitään eroja ei saatu käyntiin eikä lähtönopeuksiin, täyttä humpuukia koko RVS käsittely. Ei jatkoon.

[FINZKI]

Liekkö etes autonmoottorissakaan mitään apua noista aineista.

[Koheltaja]

Moottoripyörän moottorissa testattu, ei vaikutusta ääniin tai moottorin ja vaihteiston toimintaan. Suurin vaikutus on korvien välissä jos uskoo tuon tuotteen toimivuuteen.

[FINZKI]

Eli rahat pois tyhmiltä tuote, yhtä paska kuin se motorup, joka taisi vain rikkoa moottorin vielä pahemmin kuin se jo oli.

Teflon tukki öljykanavat jne, ainakin tutun carina kestänyt pitkään kun tuosta luuli hoidon saavan