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Avoin Keskustelu => Aseet => Aiheen aloitti: laur - marraskuu 12, 2007, 08:27

Otsikko: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - marraskuu 12, 2007, 08:27
If you visit FN USA site, then you can see that SCAR is in their catalogue. Previously there were talks that there will be SCAR's sniper version. ... but this isn't sniper's model :( Is this the final decision?



//http://www.fnhusa.com/products/firearms/model.asp?mid=FNM0112&cid=FNC01&fid=FNF045&gid=FNG007
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: er - marraskuu 13, 2007, 08:11
Hi Laur. I assume Scar now only available as a selective fire version?(Full auto/Semi-auto)

As you know H&K has started to market its HK 417 Sniper model. However this model has full auto capability and therefor is not open for public. Do you know is there any significant technical difference between Scar and HK417. Both have a gas piston and the basic construction bases on AR-10. Is there any real difference between the two.



http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/le_hk417_general.html



The HK has a forward assist, but the Scar does not. However I do believe the Scar design  with a direct handle in the slide is much more practical.
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - marraskuu 13, 2007, 12:55
er, I suppose that 417 will enter into civilian market (in semi-auto mode). As far I understand SCAR is first only for LE. ... or I'm wrong?



http://www.hkpro.com/hkpro416civilianannouncement.htm



Here you can see also HK 417 live :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UP3TolpRJ8



SCAR has folding stock and this is huge advantage in narrow places.



Just visually the barrels of both weapons are too thin for long-range precision shooting.
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: er - marraskuu 13, 2007, 14:42
Both Scar and the H&K seem very interesting. With the lighter barrel it would seem that the best role both, is when acting in designated marksman role. However some times the thin barrels surprise. The accuracy might be sub MOA for first 10 rounds that usually are the ones that count. Still it is easy to see that with continuous fire the barrel will probably overheat.



I hope the H&K at least comes to the civilian market.  Both Scar and the H&K seem more than adequate replacements for the SVD Dragunov.



Have you heard any reports of the accuracy?
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - marraskuu 13, 2007, 16:01
There is little talk about accuracy.


LainaaSCAR-L is designed to enable 70% hit ratio on 500 meter point target and 600 meter area target (These are threshold levels, the objective is to extend the range by 100 and 200 meters, respectively) SCAR-H provides better accuracy and range, enabling 70% hit ratio on 600 meter point target and 800 meter area target (objective - 800 / 1000 meters).


//http://www.defense-update.com/products/s/scar.htm



Is the "objecitve" already reached? I doubt :)
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: er - marraskuu 13, 2007, 18:14
I guess it depends on how do they define "point target"???  If a point target is full size man, the goal can be easily achieved. With the 500mm(20inch) barrel it is obvious, that the full potential of the 7,62NATO is not measured out. The trajectory therefore is not quite as flat as it could be, witch naturally causes one to shoot over or under the target more easily, if the target is smaller than  a mans upper body. FN says that sniper barrels are available, but is this just a rumor that has not come to truth? Do you know if the "sniper barrels" are only 500mm long??



The US government seems to believe to the accuracy level of the Scar.



 "SCAR H, a 7.62mm assault rifle (below), will replace the M14 and Mk11 sniper rifles. "



My guess is that they are going for better reliability and firepower with the cost of higher accuracy. I can not blame the idea for higher reliability at all.

To my mind using a gas piston is the right way to go.



It is interesting that they added Full auto capability to a 3,26kg rifle, in  7,62NATO. I truly wonder how usable can such weapon be in full auto. The continuous recoil must raise the barrel to the extend that accurate firing is hard or impossible. Previously this has happened with the selective fire version of M14.

The light weight can be seen naturally as a positive thing. If the weight of Scar is just 3,26kg empty and about 4,3kg with the selected S&B PMII 3-12X50 scope. The overall weight is therefore below the level Simo Häyhä taught to be suitable for a sniper rifle. It was Häyhäs idea that a man can not move fast enough and stay low enough, if the rifle ways more than 4,5kg.  Though it has been 60years of Häyhäs days, the basic rules how much can a man easily carry are still the same.



I hope I get my hands one either the H&K 417 or the Scar. If possible both on the same shooting session would be load of fun.
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: Lahtis - marraskuu 13, 2007, 18:31
Lainaus käyttäjältä: erWith the 500mm(20inch) barrel it is obvious, that the full potential of the 7,62NATO is not measured out. The trajectory therefore is not quite as flat as it could be, witch naturally causes one to shoot over or under the target more easily. FN says that sniper barrels are available, but is this just a rumor that has not come to truth? Do you know if the "sniper barrels" are only 500mm long??

"Sniper"-käyttöön varmasti ihan riittävän pitkä piippu.. Moniko "sniper"-kiväärin ostaja ampuu ++500m etäisyyksille?? Paljonko se +4'' lisäisi ampumaetäisyyttä? 100m? Ylipitkille etäisyyksille joku muu, kuin .308 IMHO..



Ase on itsessään varmasti riittävän hyvä ja tarkka keskipitkänmatkan tulituki-ta-kivääri.



/Antti
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: er - marraskuu 13, 2007, 19:42
Ta kiväärillä +500 matkat eivät ole "ylipitkiä". Ylipitkä alkaa määrittelijästä riippuen 800-1000m paikkeilla.



Itse jakaisin matkat: <500m lyhyt, 500-900m normaali, >900m ylipitkä.  



Jatkuvalla tahdilla ei moni, mutta kuten varmaan tiedät ei vara venettä kaada.

Jos 1cm, piippua lisää lähtöjä noin 4m/s ruudista riippuen niin mielestäni 10cm pidempi piippu on ihan perusteltu nimenomaan ta aseessa, joka ei ole sama asia kuin RK. Hyvä pyyhkäisyala kuitenkin nostaa osumatodennäköisyyttä jäykkää piippua enemmän.



Totta on että >600m matkoille on eri aseet, mutta jokapaikkaan ei niitäkään riitä, jolloin jos pienellä piipun pidennyksellä saadaan parempi osumatodennäköisyys, niin mielestäni se kannattaa. Scar nykymuodossaan onkin nähtävä enemmän designated marksman aseena kuin ta kiväärinä. Sinällään kiinnostava ase.
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - marraskuu 14, 2007, 07:56
In the following slide show are mentioned three versions - CQC, standard and sniper variant.



//http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006smallarms/smith.pdf



In FN site there is no more such thing as sniper variant.



Accuracy is 0,5-0,7 MOA at 300m.



SCAR should replace Mk11 and M14. Instead Mk11 there is SASS. ... so, SCAR replaces only M14 and there is no need anymore for sniper variant :)
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - marraskuu 19, 2007, 15:20
Here is little information about HK 417 precision.


LainaaDuring recent HK-conducted desert testing, a single HK417 prototype (2nd design stage) fired more than 15,000 documented rounds of assorted ammunition, to include M118LR, M80 ball, M993 AP and assorted commercial ammunition with bullet weights ranges from 125 to over 175 grains without a single parts failure or stoppage! Accuracy firing with a prototype 12-inch barreled HK417 "assaulter" carbine and 10X optical sight was conducted with user representatives using US M118LR ammunition. Firing multiple 3-shot groups at 100 - 500 yards lines, the average group size for all four shooters was 1.3 MOA from an HK417 carbine with 12-inch barrel!


//http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/le_hk417_general.html



//http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=27&sid=307e3c6961253d1f22b5cba67a16d7ed
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - marraskuu 26, 2007, 18:38
SCAR demonstration video



http://www.ghostrecon.net/files2/index.php?act=view&id=755
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - joulukuu 09, 2007, 16:47
ar15.com visitor writes this way:


LainaaWell for everyone who wondered about a possible extended rail version, here's a prototype sniper version that offers exactly that:


//http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8976/scarlbpe5.jpg



Source is here:



//http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=228800&page=5
Otsikko: Re: SCAR is available :(
Kirjoitti: laur - tammikuu 25, 2010, 12:12
(//%3C/s%3Ehttp://i.imagehost.org/0301/Scar_H.jpg%3Ce%3E) (//http)



//http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45611



vs



(//%3C/s%3Ehttp://i.imagehost.org/0937/P1020980.jpg%3Ce%3E) (//http)



//http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45681
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